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So Jesse, you were picked to direct the music video for “How Far Apart.” When you got the call, were you just over the moon since you loved the song already? 

JESSE: I could be wrong, but I don't even know if we ever had that conversation of like, “you want to do the video?” Cause like, Ben was obviously writing the album, doing his own thing with that and not anyone in the world knowing and I was doing music videos and movies. So I feel like, as he started [revealing] like, “Hey, I've got these songs” and we both knew I was doing music videos as well, I think it just sort of rolled into this very nonchalant like “Oh, the visuals are going to be so great, like imagine this.” It sort of started off with this tiny snowball and just turned into this avalanche and it just kept going. So I don't know if it ever was just like, “Hey, let's go,” it was more just like it organically started happening. Which I think, in my life, those turn out to be the best things I ever personally work on is when nothing’s contrived, everything is so natural and it all comes together. Then, I think eventually [the music video] just turned into like, “Alright, so I'm gonna shoot this. That's cool, right?” [laughs]. 

Ben, how would you compare working with a fellow artist on a music video in a visual medium versus say co-writing with someone musically? 

BEN: Well, co-writing for me has never worked out but just working with Jesse is completely different than working with any other music video director. In the past, basically, the way we used to do things back in the day is like our management company would ask a bunch of directors to send their treatments in and they write up like a page thing about what the video is. And then you're like, “Yeah, I like this one -- number seven out of 10.” And then you go and they direct the video and you really don't have any conversation. But with Jesse, like he said, it was just a conversation for months about the whole album and it was really just a collaborative process about the vision for the whole record. So it's completely different than how we used to do it. I can't believe we used to do it the other way and I can't believe we used to entrust our music videos to someone who wrote something for 20 minutes and then you signed off on it and then you just showed up to set and they did what they did and then that's your video. Also, I just want to say, we talked to zero other directors about the potential for doing this. Like it was just a foregone conclusion that Jesse was going to do this.  

JESSE: It was such a new experience even for me too 'cause it is such a creative collaboration whenever I work with anyone. But since Ben is also a prolific writer, it was extra fun because I don't really have someone to work with that much on the creative storyline/narrative process that much. Usually, it's me and my partner Jimmy sort of conceptualizing, doing the narrative, figuring out all the details. But with Ben, he's like, “alright, so here's the idea.” And I'm like, “Sick, let's put it in a room.” 

BEN: [laughs] 

JESSE: I mean there'd be times we'd sit on the phone for a minute in just dead silence -- just 'cause we're thinking -- and then it’d be like, “alright, check this out!” So it was like the true definition of a writers’ room, like a remote writers’ room. It was so fun to just dive in creatively. And Ben was with me on set every second of the whole day, all the days. So like, even when we're shooting a specific scene, it's nice to be able to go like, “Yo, I need to pick a color for this. Could you work with the art team to figure it out?” Usually, it's me, me, me, me, me. But like, having Ben sort of handle so much of the creative on the set was awesome. 

BEN: You know it's funny. Jesse, on that note: I was just hanging out with my mom in New Jersey when I was back there shooting these videos and my mom was like, “So what's Jesse’s like thing? Like, what's his specialty?” And I'm like, “Well, you know, he knows the music world cause he was the frontman of a band. So he knows all the art of that. But he's also a photographer and knows film sets and directs his videos.” And my mom was like, “Oh so he's kind of like you.”  

JESSE: [laughs] 

BEN: You know, there's some people where it's like they're a guitar player -- they'll spend their whole life just learning guitar and that's their thing. And that's awesome. But I feel like, I don't know, for me, maybe it was like growing up in the DIY punk rock scene. Like, I wanted to book a show. So, in order to do that, I had to make the flyers, hand them out, book the bands, tell my mom to rent a PA. You know what I mean? It's more of like, being involved in the entire creative process and I think Jesse and I are similar like that.

So then, for both of you, how does it feel in 2022 to have this New Jersey revival with bands like My Chemical Romance, The Juliana Theory, Midtown, and others back at it again? Must feel good to see your friends playing music again.  

JESSE: I mean, for me, I talked about it with Dan from Equal Vision. It's like, this world of full circle is so common now it's like I'm not even surprised anymore. I think everyone had their proper break to do life and life happened. I mean for everyone. Like, everyone. I rarely know people who kept going straight continuing the path nonstop. I think everyone had proper life happen. And then, I think as we're maybe getting a bit older into our 30s and 40s, I know for me at least, it was like, “Well, it's now or never. This is my last hurrah.” And for me, I became completely content with my own being which made me feel like I wanted to go back to my first love and give it another go. And, apparently, everyone else is feeling the same in the world [laughs]. Not saying it’s the same process, but we're all coincidentally coming back. 

Is that similar for you Ben? 

BEN: Oh yeah, absolutely. It's been so cool specifically to see My Chem do what they're doing. I feel like the kind of downfall of emo was like a black eye for a lot of these bands that put in so many years of hard work. And I mean, My Chem are kind of like the poster child for emo and I think the whole “hot top-ification" of everything was just like... I mean, I haven't talked to them about it, but I would imagine it's a bummer for them because they all were scene kids and put in their dues and I think it was just kind of like a bummer when the whole scene fizzled out in such a weird way. So for them to come back and, I imagine they're playing bigger shows than they ever did when they were an active band, it just must be really rewarding for them to know that it wasn't all for nothing and that they meant a lot to people. So it's cool and also they're great guys. They're like some of the best dudes ever or a band with the best dudes in it ever so it's awesome to see that happen to them. I hope they made a new record or they're going to make a new record. I definitely do not have any knowledge about that, but I feel like their fans would just go insane if there was a new record. So yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. 

Ben, did any of these bands reuniting help motivate you to be like, “yeah we can do this too”?  

BEN: Um, maybe a little bit. But I mean, I think if anything, Dan from Equal Vision a couple years ago was like, “You guys should do a 15-year anniversary tour for What To Do When You Are Dead.” And I guess maybe he had his ear to the pulse or whatever more than I did, so I trusted him with that. But yeah, with this record at least, I know it's coming from a real place and not from like a, “Emo’s back! Let’s do a record!” You know what I mean? So based on what I was going through and where the world was, this record was going to happen even if emo was dead forever. So again, sometimes songs connect with people, sometimes albums connect with people and sometimes they don't. No one can predict that. So like, I'm confident with what I did and it was helpful to me and I hope it'll be helpful to some people. But like, whether it connects on a big level or not based on whether emo is back or whatever, [it’s] whatever. I'll be happy either way. It doesn't really matter to me. 

It's pretty cool to still hear the excitement and passion you two have for the scene and other artists like My Chemical Romance. Because, essentially, that same excitement you have is what you two are creating for fans with your recent releases. People will be freaking out about new Armor For Sleep the same way you’d be excited about new My Chem. 

JESSE: I mean, I think that’s the only reason why we’re here right now.

BEN: Yep.  

JESSE: Like, I think if we were sort of a bit topical and just very surface level with everything like what would be our driving point? This is our driving point . . . This is why we are where we are – it’s the passion, and the power, and the excitement. And again, I think that's why a lot of the bands who have broken up and come back together -- I don't want to speak for everyone -- but I feel like maybe a lot of people sort of lost the flame. And, you know, when you're young and you've only known one way of life being a teenager touring the world and playing shows and writing albums and touring and playing shows and touring and writing albums... When you only know one life, what you crave is the party you can’t get into which is life. You’re like, “Man, I wonder what it’s like to not do this?” So you grow up, then you get into life and you’re like, “Life is pretty sick... but you know what would be cool? Let me try this [band] thing again” [laughs]. It’s that [itch] that never goes away. We’re always going to have that itch. And I think the real artists are just artists who have to create and have to have that outlet. It doesn’t go away, it’s always there.  

Ben, do you agree with that?  

BEN: Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I would love a new My Chem record. I hope they do it, I really do.  

JESSE: I hope so too. I mean, there’s only so much you can listen to [with] Three Cheers and Black Parade and even the Eyeball release – the “Vampires” one. That was such a Jersey pride album, you know. That “Vampires” album, that's how Number 12, at least for me, got discovered on so many levels cause they were on the Eyeball sampler and Number 12 was as well. So people who were discovering My Chem also accidentally discovered this fucking grindcore band from New Jersey like, “what the fuck is this?” But like, we owe a lot to My Chem.  

BEN: I remember Armor was going to Nada Studios in upstate New York, I think we were doing demos for Dream To Make Believe. And I remember pulling up to John D'clario’s house -- John was this producer there who worked out of his mom's basement -- and there were like three black sedans parked outside of his house. It was basically like older dudes, I don't know if they were wearing business suits, but they were industry dudes and I was like, “What the fuck is that?” And I walked in and My Chem were finishing up that album for Eyeball but there were already major label people literally trying to court them. And I remember that because that's before the My Chem craziness. That's before, like, Fall Out Boy and all these bands kind of crossed over into the mainstream. But like, in my head, that was the first moment where I was like, “Oh, something is happening” or like, “People think this scene has a lot of energy.” 

JESSE: I actually messaged Mikey [Way] when they announced all their shows. I was like, “Yo dude, I’m gonna throw a Hail Mary: Number 12 and My Chem basement tour. What do you think?” [laughs]  

BEN: [laughs] 

JESSE: He actually said, he was like, “Dude, I swear to God, if COVID wasn’t a thing, that’s 1000% something we would do!” I was like “FUCK!” [laughs] 

BEN: Fuckin COVID. 

JESSE: Fuckin COVID ruining my chance at making it big time!  

JESSE & BEN: [laughs]